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When Using Injection Rubber Is a Way Better Choice Than Acrylic Gel

One complaint I often hear from clients who have ordered concrete leak sealing procedures in which an acrylic gel was used is that under some conditions, the expansion joint leaks again. This problem happens typically because of dry weather, which causes acrylic gels dry out and shrink. And when acrylic gels dry, they lose their elasticity, and ability to adhere to concrete walls. And that’s why water starts leaking. Of course, acrylic gels have the ability to regenerate and expand when they come into contact with water again, but there’s a period of time when they just don’t seal. 

So, if you haven’t already, hit subscribe, sit back and enjoy the episode.

 

Job site investigation before injection

For situations like this, when the job site investigation tells us that dry seasons might occur longer than usually, or under a variety of other circumstances, a far better choice is to use an injection rubber. Remember, as always, a proper job site investigation is key to choosing the correct product!

In my conversation with Michaela Müller-Kaya, CEO of Arcan Waterproof, we get into the details of using injection rubber and under what conditions it’s a better choice than acrylic gel. As Michaela told me, “for construction sealing … a gel is absolutely perfect. It's a wonderful product for this application.” However, she said that for expansion joints injection rubber is a much better product because it doesn't shrink, it has a homogeneous structure, it’s mechanically resistant, and it has very good adhesion. “So, the purpose is totally different, and … the features are totally different compared with acrylic gel,” she added. What I learned from my conversation with Michaela helped me choose an injection rubber for a critical leak sealing job I did recently in downtown Wroclaw, in an underground passage underneath a high-traffic motorway, which included a tram line. 

My job site investigation indicated there would likely be extended periods of very low humidity, plus I detected intense vibration caused by trams. Also, there was challenging access to the work area. All this meant that I didn’t want to risk having to go back to rework the seal. So I concluded that injection rubber would be the best choice and I’m glad I did because now when I think about that job, I can sleep easy!

So if you’ve ever wondered if there are better alternatives to acrylic gels for certain jobs, you definitely won’t want to miss this episode! 

Plus, I have a few great giveaways, so make sure you stay to the end to find out what they are and how to get them.

 

From the #009 episode of Concrete Injection Made Easy podcast you will find out:

  • What are the best areas of application of injection rubber any why?
  • What are the main properties of an injection rubber?
  • When can acrylic gel be used, and when should it rather be used injection rubber?
  • Injection rubber shrinks to its original volume, but not less. What's in it for me?
  • How to apply an injection rubber?
  • Expansion joint sealing relies on swelling rather than adhesion to concrete. Important especially after several swelling/deswelling cycles.
  • How to use re-injected injection hoses and why we have discussed it?
  • What made me choose an injection rubber in one of my latest projects in Wrocław?

Filling the dilatation joint with Injection Rubber

We have dug out the dilatation to see how the material is spreading of its interior during the injection. The photo shows how the resin pumped by the higher row of packers from inside the underground passage flows filling the joint all the way to the surface of the slab. / Wrocław/

Tuday's Guest

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Michaela Müller-Kaya is the CEO of Arcan Waterproof. She is a very experienced entrepreneur running a family business for 21 years now. In the beginning, it had to be a huge challenge to take over the family business! 
Previously, the company was involved in production and painting, but for over 35 years it has been producing chemicals for sealing. The company employs 5 people involved in the development and development of new resins. Today, the company and its leader sell their modern and refined products all over the world, however, as it turned out during the interview, they are still looking for more resellers, so if you feel you can sell construction chemicals in your market, contact Michaela.

If you want to contact Michaela, this is the link to her account on LinkedIn, Michaela Müller-Kaya. Please mention that you've heard this interview in your inviting note. 

Michaela Müller Kaya LinkedIn comment 

Concrete Injection Made Easy giveaways

One is a 5 percent discount on HydroBloc 570 injection rubber.

All you need to do is to purchase the resin within 10 days from 30.07.2020 sending your order to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Please do not forget to put the Promo Code: Rapid5 in the email. If you purchase it through any worldwide distributor you will get the same discount – if the distributor is provided with the Promo Code.

The second one is a 30-minute remote consultation by phone or Skype with Mateusz or Michaela. The second promotion involves:

  1. subscribing to the Podcast on iTunes
  2. leaving an honest review

Promotion runs for 10 days from the date of publication of this podcast episode.

You can schedule the consultation with Michaela here on Calendly

 

You can schedule the consultation with Mateusz here on Calendly

 

Schedule your conversation today, before it's too late. 

I want to point out here that I am not receiving any payment from Arcan, I just asked Michaela to grant a discount to my podcast audience and she agreed. Many thanks for that. I hope this is the perfect time to take advantage of it. In the last week, I visited 3 construction sites where the water started to leak due to drying out and shrinkage of gel. Everything that we said in the conversation happened there. So it is, even more, important learning how to apply another type of resin.

 

Comparison of acrylic gel and injection rubber

Want to compare these two types of resins easily? No problem at all! Just download this table I prepared just for you after the interview was recorded. 

 

Resources

Arcan webpage

Arcan blog

Arcan YouTube channel

Arcan FaceBook

TDS of HydroBloc 570-Rapid

Here you will find two previous podcast episodes related to today's one. In 4th one, we talk about the technology of sealing expansion joints. In 6th we are talking about various acrylic gels types and we dive into the ways of using them. Both are necessary to have a good understanding of the differences between acrylic gel and injection rubber.

#004 Sealing Expansion Joints with Dennis Wagner of Normet

#006 Acrylic gels for leak-sealing and more with Brice Diochon at SNF 

 

 

Transcription

- Click to collapse

DOWNLOAD PDF

 

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gel, injection, acrylic, joint, material, water, mixing, resin, works, product, inject, pump, waterproofing, injection rubber, leakage, situation, tube, question

SPEAKERS

Mateusz Furs, Michaela Müller-Kaya

 

Mateusz Furs

Today I have an absolutely great topic connected to episode no 4 with Dennis and episode no 6 with Brice. But before we start I'd like to share with you what I heard from one of my listeners, Hamid Sohrabi. He left me a voice message after we recorded an interview. 

Hamid Sohrabi 

Hamid Sohrabi's voice message.

Mateusz Furs

Wow, Thank you, Hamid, This kind of information makes me happy. I do feel what I do makes sense. 

I will continue, I promise. Ok, let's dive into another portion of details and secrets of injection. 

 

One complaint I often hear from clients who have ordered concrete leak sealing procedures in which an acrylic gel was used is that under some conditions, the expansion joint leaks again. This problem happens typically because of dry weather, which causes acrylic gels dry out and shrink. And when acrylic gels dry, they lose their elasticity, and ability to adhere to concrete walls. And that’s why water starts leaking. Of course, acrylic gels have the ability to regenerate and expand when they come into contact with water again, but there’s a period of time when they just don’t seal. For situations like this, when the job site investigation tells us that dry seasons might occur longer than usually, or under a variety of other circumstances, a far better choice is to use an injection rubber.

Remember, as always, a proper job site investigation is key to choosing the correct product!

In my conversation with Michaela Müller-Kaya, CEO of Arcan Waterproof, we get into the details of using injection rubber and under what conditions it’s a better choice than acrylic gel.

PONIŻEJ WKLEJAMY ROZWINIĘCIE


What I learned from my conversation with Michaela helped me choose injection rubber for a critical leak sealing job I did recently in downtown Wroclaw, in an underground passage underneath a high-traffic motorway, which included a tram line. 

My job site investigation indicated there would likely be extended periods of very low humidity, plus I detected intense vibration caused by trams. Also, there was challenging access to the work area. All this meant that I didn’t want to risk having to go back to rework the seal. So I concluded that injection rubber would be the best choice and I’m glad I did because now, when I think about that job, I can sleep easy!

So if you’ve ever wondered if there are better alternatives to acrylic gels for certain jobs, you definitely won’t want to miss this episode! 

Plus, I have a few great giveaways, so make sure you stay to the end to find out what they are and how to get them. So, if you haven’t already, hit subscribe, sit back and enjoy the episode.

So tune, subscribe, and take your concrete injection game to the next level!

 

Hello Michaela. How are you doing today?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

Fine. I hope you too.

 

Mateusz Furs

I am. It is raining outside the window in my city and in Warsaw, actually there is a storm. It's been raining for three hours in a row, heavy raining. So this is perfect weather. When it's raining, we can discuss this leakages subject yeah This is I, personally I really love when it is raining.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

Me too, me too. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

So we have something in common. And first of all, if you could tell us, to me and our listeners, I know that you run a family owned business. Can you tell me about this time you started? How was it at the beginning?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

So originally the company developed from my great grandfather's painting business. And so we did many different projects and things over the years. And yeah, I think since 35 years, yeah, it must be 35 years, we are in the waterproofing business. And so we have a wide wide range with water-soluble tapes, injection tubes, resins, our tools coating system

 

Mateusz Furs 

So no more, no more painting?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

No more painting, so we have special paints, waterproof paints. We don't do the work anymore since I don't know how many years.

 

Mateusz Furs

I think I'm, I did say it in one of my previous podcast episodes. That for me, you know painting the wall is so boring. I mean, you see everything...

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

Yeah, absolutely!

 

Mateusz Furs

Because it's on the surface. So you don't actually have to use your imagination and this Yeah, our injection business imagination is so much needed, we need to really understand what is going on with the resin while being pumped. What happens with the water that is stuck in this in this crack and so on. So this is so, so interesting comparing to painting.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

It is. And sometimes you have to be Sherlock Holmes to find where the leakage comes from and where the problem is because they don't have the plans that didn't do the perfect monitoring for a project or the project is very old. So you really have to look into the details I get a feeling for for yeah for the job itself for the waterproofing.

 

Mateusz Furs

Yeah, absolutely every single guest of of my podcast and even not on the podcast this conversation is almost the same, but we say this is it looks very much like an investigation on the job site. 

Yes. 

You have to know how to ask right questions. Get to the point to get to the point. Yeah. So today we are going to discuss something which is very similar to acrylic gels, but it's not an acrylic gel. Indeed. Can you tell us what's the product and yeah, and then we will try to dive in this details to compare those two products. 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

Okay, I will try. So the product we are talking about today. It's called HydroBloc® 570-Rapid and we call it an injection rubber. Hmm. So this rubber line injection. Yeah, because that directly after mixing the material creates the cream it is likely pudding. And this pudding is easily pumpable. But it doesn't. Yeah, distribute for example, in heavy water inrush or if there's a white frame or by john, it doesn't come out immediately so it stays inside. And after 60 seconds, this cream creates or develops into a highly elastic rubber material. And that's the reason why we call it injection rubber. Okay, and it stays like that.

 

Mateusz Furs

It stays like that. So I injected into the, let's say an expansion joint because this is as I know, like the main purpose of this this product? 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya

Yes.

 

Mateusz Furs 

One of the main problems like No, we'll go to this a little bit later. But I used this to inject into the expansion joint. And yeah, so I think I will tell the story. We got, we got this product on the job site, and there was immediately a phone from my employee. And he asked if I order the right product, and if everything is okay, because they got only two components, component A, and component B, nothing else. So, no additional sub components needed?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

No. So the mixing ratio is one by one after module. It's very easy, so there is no room for mistakes. So you don't need to accelerate you don't need to reaction starter. It's just one by one, so very, very easy and very comfortable,

 

Mateusz Furs 

We really, you know, get used to mix different kinds of acrylic gels from different producers. So we have at least two or even three sub components in A part, then they had these two components in the B parts, we have to mix it, you know, this cup test to check the time of reaction, if something is wrong, then we add some salt. You know, we mix it a little bit more to really obtain the homogeneous, you know, components. Yeah, yeah. And then another try. So it takes a while to, you know, to be sure that the acrylic gel is prepared as we want, exactly as we want. But, you know, this is an advantage because we can prepare it as we want as well.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

This is why the, the application is totally different. So we, of course, we have acrylic gel as well. We suggested for gel curtains. Yeah. For for construction sealing. So gel is absolutely perfect. It's a wonderful product for this application. We think for dilatation joints the injection rubber is much better yeah product because it doesn't shrink it has a homogeneous structure, it is mechanical resistant, it has a very good adhesion. So, the purpose is totally different and are the features are totally different compared with acrylic gel.

 

Mateusz Furs 

The was a question from another employee, that if we are able to inject this material into the expansion joint and really observe as it goes from one packer to another because, we use packers with unscrewed nipple so we can really control the injection process. And this is you know, this is important that to really know Where the material is while it is being injected.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

close. Absolutely.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Yeah. And then we also remove the air for all the all the water from inside of the expansion joint. So this is, you know, like, very important stuff to really take control over what you do. And their  question was, if this material after we mix it, the reaction starts immediately, you know, after a couple of seconds, you really can notice the difference in viscosity of these two already mixed components. So, is there no risk that it will, you know, stuck somewhere and it won't flow?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

I know what you mean, and yeah, I understand. So the situations like that when you make A with B, this cream exists for approximately one minute. So one minute is a really long time when you do injection. And in this minute you can pump this cream. And be far for one joint, we used one packer. So we expected much more, but we use just one to fill a 12 meter joint with just one packer. So this is possible. And it's just after this 60 seconds that the viscosity is getting very, very high, and then there is no longer pumping. It's not longer possible to pump this material. And in total, after 90 seconds, there, the material is fully set. So the last step in viscosity comes relatively fast. So in the last 40 seconds, it gains strength and okay in the last few seconds, you can't be pummeled and...

 

Mateusz Furs 

 it stays there and yeah, nothing can be done.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, it is not as liquid as acrylic gel. So if you want to do the gel coating, the acrylic is much better. But this one is for water stop. And it is for delectation joint repair.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Well, yeah, actually, when you inject this material into huge space, which is the expansion joint, it's not the crack and expansion joint component to crack. It's a huge space. So you don't need so low viscosity, so low viscous material.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Absolutely it is it is better to have a high viscosity material to guarantee the perfect filling. And so it is an advantage not a disadvantage in this case. Okay.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Can you tell me? Well, actually, you almost answered this question, but Well, what is the way of application of this product? 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Oh, you need to 2 component pump. So this is absolutely mandatory. It's funny, we have one customer and he used this product in a handgun. And he says it works perfectly well but I don't know how he managed this. So the usual application is a two component pump mixing ratio one by one so to standard one we use for a acrylic gel.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Exactly the same 2 K pump?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yes, absolutely nothing special. It's the only thing is we asked you to to have cleaned the pump properly and to guarantee that is dry. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

So I ask my employees to clean the pump every day.  Yes. I really asked them to clean it every day and it's still from time to time it's you know, because some leftovers of resin stay there and then another injection process and another and it goes so yes. Even though Even though they say that this product won't react if there are no two components that they they meet together in this injection, head mixing mixing head, this it's still somehow gets dirty over time.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

And it's the reason why I always suggest the commentary or you just fill into the pump and the tubes and you leave it inside until the next injection, you can reuse it very very often until it is completely dirty. So it connects or avoids the hardening of the leftover materials inside of the pump. And you just pump it out afterwards and then you start directly with your injection and it doesn't interfere with with any resin

 

Mateusz Furs 

that's that's okay. But if you use the same pump for acrylics and from on for faster acting PUs then you have to switch it you know First there is Then there's water as the solvent, then there is solvent, then another water so it's not that easy. I really take. I really think of getting another new pump.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

To have 1 for PU and 1 for acrylics. Excellent choice. Yeah, very good idea. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

So I'm really close to have this decision to get another pump because it's you know, it's too often we have to switch these material base from one to another and vice versa.  Sometime ago I have seen I've seen already we had the discussion on the phone that we needed you had the life seminars and sometimes you you have also have online seminars for your clients and I guess also for prospects and like, can you tell us a little bit how does it work like how many people you meet there and you know..

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Okay, so this is very different. So sometimes we have between 10-20 people, and last time we had 120. So the difference Yeah, it's very nice and the discussion afterwards it's very interesting because even online, there's a very good discussion with all the potential listeners and customers and yeah, it works very well. So, not only the the life seminars are important for the people even in this pandemic situation, the online seminars are very good. Yeah, methods to to keep in touch and to be prepared for the time afterwards. And the acceptance is very good. Yeah. Okay. So, what we do usually some theory, we do some mixing, to get a feeling for the material. So it is a it's a very It's a dialogue so we don't keep it in a monologue. Like Yeah, holding your speech It is really um, yeah. Very interesting.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Q&A, questions and answers. Yes from both sides I guess

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

From both sides. This is how it works.

 

Mateusz Furs 

So like I want I really would like to have this conversation as this call to our listeners can compare acrylics and and this HydroBloc® 570 material and we already told about some differences between those two products. I was wondering if during this seminars people are really able to, you know, to imagine this difference, especially if the seminar takes place online to imagine this difference between an acrylic and this.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Of course it is possible because you I have samples like this with me. So you see, this is acrylic gel with sand. And this is the heart and or the the shrink to acrylic gel. And when you compare the elastic rubber like material, so it's so easy and usually we mix we show Okay, online it's not possible we let them touch and feel, but when you mix it and you see the difference, because if you see how, how flexible the gel is, and if you compare it with the Rapid and see that the inner strength of the presence of the injection rubber is so different compared to an acrylic gel.

 

Mateusz Furs 

I also have some samples. This sample is a week and a half old and this is an acrylic gel with the part B was reinforced with latex, okay, and so. It is not as elastic as it was just after mixing and reaction time was like half a minute more or less. But I see on the surface the color is different. 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Of course, the water goes away. The water is leaving. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

so it shrinks because as you may see there is the space between the cup and the and the acrylic gel.  And that is the point! Even the reinforced gel will shrink in a delegation joint if it is getting dried. So, and if then we have had a rain today. So if there's a lot of rain, the water comes it goes through the customer calls in says hey, we have a leakage but we paid a lot of money for the job. And then of course it starts growing again and then the leakage reseal. But in the meantime you have the problem. And with the rapid injection rubber you don't have this because there is no shrinkage. I remember myself working as a product manager for injections, it was years ago. But still, I just remember this conversation even during seminars and some trainings for our customers that I was explaining that you might expect to have some drops coming through. Yeah, water, some water coming through, you know, after a long period of dry weather, and then this gel has this great ability to cure itself using this water. It takes hours off or first day. first days are really tough for the client because he really feels like something's wrong. Something's wrong. Definitely no, I paid to have it solved. And then I see the water coming again.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

You know the big difference between injection gels and other swellable resins is a gel contains water, it contains a lot of water, even the gel itself comes with a lot of water and the second component is water, or you reinforce it. But the solid content of gels is low. That's the reason why they shrink. So other resins like this one, this is the original size in contact with water, it starts growing. This process is reversible, like the gels, fallibility, so the auto repair effect works perfectly well. But the differences and it's the same with injection rubber, it won't get smaller than the original size. So the original size, the thing you inject will be what you have. This swellability of the product is just additional benefit, but you don't have the disadvantage of the shrinking. Okay,

 

Mateusz Furs 

so that's the main screen but to this volume from the very first day when it was injected.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Get from the original size. So this is this is a pure resin. So it starts growing it will shrink back and growing and shrinking but without going smaller than the original size and that's it. That's the swellability from yeah swellable resins which are not acrylic materials are acrylic gels.

 

Mateusz Furs 

we dried this resin on our job site. As I said, we were injecting into the expansion joining in Warsaw my employees, you know, from the this material will be also great to stop the water. We were injecting and you know, to stop the water between the piles, they weren't connected. They weren't overlapping at all. It was five meters, wall of piles and at the very bottom, the space, the gap between piles was almost up to 35 centimeters  Oh my gosh! And the water table was very high. There was missing ground from you know, from from external, external site. And my employees was like, man! This material would be great because it doesn't mix with water.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Exactly, that's advantage. So you don't need foam for water stop. You just use the injection rubber and it keeps together because of the creamy structure, it won't get separated and you attack it in a situation like that. And it can get to inner strength very easily and that's the reason why we say it is the best for water stock you can get and another advantage it doesn't have pores. So it is absolutely a homogeneous structure. And you will have you know, we call it a one shot system because you need just one material for water stop and permanent waterproofing. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

You know where If you use PU based resins then first if you use this really really fast reacting PU foaming huge amount of foam creating resin. And then the second step is to use another PU based resin that will have the water for permanent

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

and then you have a problem that you don't get the real waterproofing inside because the form blocks the path that was

 

Mateusz Furs 

always my problem like I couldn't believe I couldn't imagine and we said the imagination is very important I couldn't imagine that this resin from this second stage of injection will penetrate the foam to really know it will stay outside but the foam from the from the from the first stage is going to be filled with water after certain amount of time. It can be a week it can be half a year, but we'll definitely 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, it will happen

 

Mateusz Furs 

 it will behave like a sponge. Yeah, it will be filled with water and in the end, it will allow the water to come to come from. That's it.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

I prefer to use different materials. So we sell a lot of forms and it works perfectly well. But the reinjection is so important to use the material which is non forming life like this one was a swellability effect. Yeah.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Coming back to expansion joins. When we prepare the expansion joints to inject this with acrylic gel, we clean it. We I mean I sometimes I even use this this expression in Polish that we can we clean this walls,  inteermal walls on the left and on the right, that you could almost eat from it.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Oh my god. Yeah.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Yeah, really, because I really want to see this concrete clean. My imagination again, allows me to believe that the injection resin will really stick and we will glue to this already cleaned concrete. And do we also have to clean it as just exactly as I described in the situation of hydro block?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, you know, when something grows, or when something starts swelling, it grows. So it means if something sticks at the beginning very well to the concrete, and then it's getting bigger and bigger, it will get loose from the surface. And in the end, just a swell pressure is sufficient for the waterproofing. The adhesion doesn't exist after the after the deswelling process. That's it. The same happens with the gel. The same with all swellable materials like integral or the injection rubber. So it is nice if you clean the surface but it is not necessary. So you don't if there are big big things or something like remove it, make it as clean as possible, but we're not in hospital. Yeah. So, just inject the material, the materials fix perfectly to everything and due to the smell pressure, so the material start swelling up to 120%. After the contact with water, the swell pressure is enough and sufficient to feel the joint.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Okay, well, it happens that we remove you know, plywood from from the expansion joint. Yeah, because you know, the leftover like the steel form concrete, sometimes it's concrete. I mean, there was no expansion joint actually, concrete inside, so we remove it. And I really like when it's clean.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

You know, if there's concrete or something else inside, remove it, it's better because you need to get material inside for the proper waterproofing. If you don't get the material in the right place, it can't seal the leakage. So, of course, these things must be gone. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

so so then again, even if the concrete walls inside of the expansion joint are not cleared perfectly well. In this material will fill we will manage to stop the water. Because of this swelling material, it will just 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yes, yeah...

 

Mateusz Furs 

Create bigger volume. 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Oh yes. Yes. And it moves with the change of the dimension of the joint. So, it levels the the change very No.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Okay. So, I remember one situation that we we have injected in, in the time of in the summertime, and the expansion joint was two centimeters, maybe 1.8 millimeter or something like that around two centimeters, but during the winter time, it was almost twice as big. It was almost four. And, you know, and the gel didn't manage to, to follow wore to work with this concrete, and it's, you know, it was still glued to one side of it, but it wasn't too Yeah the other one and of course they're leaking we could just stand there. Now, do you think that this material will you know manage the situation

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

it could be so, it must at the beginning you have to guarantee that you fill the joint properly. So really to make it feel full.

 

Mateusz Furs 

It is glued to one and the second one left, 2  walls.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

So, maybe even the the gel shrink over the time this could have happened. So because of the non shrinking property of the rubber I thought it will stick to the walls it will move with the joint. Okay, but if the joint opens up too far, yeah, there's a limitation. So the material starts swelling up to 100%. So if it is more like that, yeah, there is not enough. capacity. So but in general, as a we haven't faced this problem before. So it work.

 

Mateusz Furs 

there was there was too many mistakes made on the one on this one job site, you know, if there is only one mistake,

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

you know, yeah, it could manage

 

Mateusz Furs 

worship situation will be solved. But if there are five or even more mistakes, and so yeah,

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

well, very difficult.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Yeah. So that was it. They had to they had to use a totally different way of sealing this. Because it turns out that there's only one joint and it works even more than a centimeter even more than one 100%. So the claim wasn't I mean, you know, I just said that they didn't tell me how this joint works and yeah So that wasn't my fault.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

satisfying, I know what No, I wasn't

 

Mateusz Furs 

happy, they weren't happy. No one was happy. Because we spent some time and they spent some money. We're really watertight this for half a year or even longer, and it worked until the cold concrete created the gap twice as big. I was I was you know, because at the moment we are discussing the areas of application that are really possible to use your product, I was looking for some areas of application comparing to a acrylic gel, then this product won't work. And I think I have found 2 of them. One is injection hoses. We need some time, reaction time longer to you know, to inject into the house and to wait until this material will come out from the injection holes they called joint and so

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

definitely look for that.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Yeah and the other one is if we would like to inject into the structure of masonry, because this is very common area of application when it comes to injection acrylic gel and this a brilliant job of really low viscosity that is the part B of it is with water like this. Yeah. So, first one injection hoses. Can you can you say something? What do you have for injection hoses or maybe this material works? But I do not think so.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

I don't know you're absolutely right. So rapid it is not suitable for injection tubes because of the viscosity because of the settling time. So we have something different for that. I know that most companies suggest that acrylic gel for for example re- injectable injection tubes and back then we have to follow them off the drain out because we can't guarantee permanent humidity in a job and that's the reason why we do one or two different material it is called inject 583 and this material is acrylic as well. So, it is not a gel, it is a resin. So it comes with a swellability. It is flexible, but it doesn't shrink it shrinks approximately 4% 5% so acceptable, but you have the advantage you can clean the joint, the tube and the machine with water. And you can have this swellable elastic. Yeah a acrylic resin for  joint for for broken joints or tube injection or crack injection.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Okay, you mentioned to re injectable injection hoses. Yeah. How does it work because you know, my imagination says, Well, how to remove the resin from the hoses? And how to make this hose clean again to be able to use it once again?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

And it's very easy. So we have a special special hose which comes with a V shape you see the red one and the black one, so it's like a week. So because of this shape, we can put a vacuum on this tube. So it works like that. You just place one end of the tube in water the other one on the sucking side of your pump and you suck water through until the water comes clean. Then you do it from the other side to make sure you close one side and then we just suck all the water out. And this is the vacuum process and this prepares tube for future injections because of this V-shape the black of the tube just comes to the red and avoids the second out of the resin we just injected a few minutes before this works perfectly well and if you compare it with the tubes or houses with the mesh around so the mesh has a problem because if you injected once the mesh is totally soiled with with resin it's absolutely yeah, yeah and you can crack it open again or even the the concrete may block the mesh for the injection itself if the concrete is really tough, but this one comes with a protection coating so there is no chance that the concrete will block the tube and because of the cleaning process and when you use that acrylic resin, you'll have 100% guarantee to do the re-injection. The very nice thing with a rejectable If you can prove your customer that this joint is absolutely waterproof because after the injection and the setting you just close one side and start from first you fill it with water you close one side and then you apply pressure and if the plant pressure keeps up you can say: "It is waterproof. Please pay your bill".

 

Mateusz Furs 

You are right because there is no water coming again to the cold john already reacted resin keeps,

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Keeps it's waterproofed! Yeah, It's very nice.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Thanks for that because you know, I haven't seen really I haven't seen anyone using this this type of injection hoses you have. We, I say you know, very often injection hoses with the mesh and yeah, as you're as you're just described. Yeah, well, from time to time the you know, they only know that you know the injection hoses were installed. But where this ending no one knows...

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Really? if you have nice boxes for that. So these are keeping boxes where the endings are stored, you just remove the plate from the top, then you pull them out and start injection. So there's a whole system of...

 

Mateusz Furs 

I know that this system is there, but believe me situation are really different things are happening on the jobsite. You know, there are systems and there are you know, ways to overcome every every single system can be changed...

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

yeah...

 

Mateusz Furs 

...on the jobsite. Okay, what about the second idea, the second situation that I think we are not able to inject to use this hydro block. I mean, the structure of masonry. where we inject into the structure to make it watertight.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, it doesn't make sense because it is. Yeah, it doesn't stretch So, so so easily because usually we use a gel with a long setting time 20 minutes, two hours for the perfect prep. But so we have the philosophy we have each for each problem, the perfect product. Yeah. So you don't need to treat all problems with just a acrylic gel. So you have the possibility to choose. Yeah,

 

Mateusz Furs 

I like it. I wonder how many people work in your in your, you know, development department like because then you have 200 people, you know, just thinking, thinking about? Well, no,

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

no, no, no, no, we have to just five to six people in the research development. And believe me it is sufficient. So they are creativity output is so high and we need to manage to sell these products as well.

 

Mateusz Furs 

So how does it work? Like they find the product. And then you look at a situation on the job site to say, Hey, we have the product, or there is a clinet calling you and he describes a situation happening for the first time. And then you think what other new product can be developed for this question.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

So both ways, both ways. Yeah. So we tap and very often that customer says, Oh, we need a product, it must look like that and this property and so on. And then we went up something and it works. So good. And then it comes into the standard portfolio. And in this developing process, or if you find new raw materials, you, you get new ideas and you get the impression what you can do with this or that. And sometimes it happens and we get a new product. And you see the future is so perfect. And then you're looking for an application. Yeah, it happens like this. But we always like the feedback from our customers. Because when we have something new, we give it to the building side and say please test it gives the impression that how it is to apply is nice. Is it smooth? Yeah. Is it easy to apply this

 

Mateusz Furs 

class, I just remember reminded the story from the Steve Jobs biography. And there is a situation that some Chinese engineers developed a really small hard drive. Yeah, but they didn't know how to use it. And they they bought it We know this as an iPod. Yeah. a 1000 songs in your pocket. So yeah. We have a great product, but how to use it?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, there is.

 

Mateusz Furs 

No it's like it's hard to believe that situation can happen but yeah, it wasn't it true funny story. Can you give us an estimation in the share of size between the acrylics and this injection rubber? like more or less? 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

How much?

 

Mateusz Furs 

How much acrylic gel, how much in %? 50/50? which is more which is less?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

It depends on the project. So, for example, if they're doing hydropower dam or some or tunnel, we have a lot of interaction rubber that as well if you have the coating injection, the tunnel injection you use the acrylic materials as well. So it depends from project to project and yeah, that's it so I can't say which one is more, those are relatively equal, but in general the the amount of acrylic gel is little bit higher.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Every single market you you deliver your product is, is the same like if you German market to polish one two, I don't know where else this share would be the same?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

No, it is totally different. And I noticed that all yet that each each country is different. So even our neighbors in France or Italy or even in Austria, they they need different things because yeah, maybe of history or something like that. They all have different problems. They build in a different way, and therefore they need different products. And that's, I think one of the reasons why we have such a huge range, because we try to satisfy all their needs.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Let's see. And by the way, so when do you sell your product? I mean, I imagine all EU.. Where do you sell your product? 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

We sell it worldwide. So we have some partners. And of course, we are always looking for new partners because the world get very big.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Well it is getting smaller....

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, that's right. So we're looking for partners in Asia or in Arabic countries. So this will be nice. But yeah, we have partners in Turkey, Russia, and Azerbaijan and so on. So yep,

 

Mateusz Furs 

 it's not directly your you as an Arcan company. There are some this partners are your resellers.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, they are resellers, sometimes there are construction companies and sometimes yeah just dealers. So it is it is very different from country to country. So, yeah, like the markets are different.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Yeah, that's true. I have a question of frequently asked questions about this product, do you have anything like this like you know, no matter the seminar, no matter the market this question always show up.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Very good question. I think it is about the adhesion. But this is settled once they saw the first mixing and how well it sticks even to the plastic cup or the wood spoon. And to be honest, once they saw the mixing, all questions are Yeah, no longer exist because it is so convincing you when you when you see the developing of the cream and then this is highly elastic rubber and you see that it doesn't shrink that there are no pores you can imagine what you can do with it even for the sheet pile walls when the locks are broken or open for the water stops there people understand relatively quick what they can do with this product. Yeah,

 

Mateusz Furs 

yeah, they just the memory showed them last situation they couldn't solve yeah and voilà, this is if only we had it!

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Yeah, you

 

Mateusz Furs 

okay. So, if there is some listener from the country you are not present yet how these people can found you?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

 Of course, they can reach us,  just we have social media by to an email would be nice or we or our website and We spoke about it, you will give my contact details and notes after the podcast. So we'll be happy to know quite information. 

 

Mateusz Furs 

There will be definitely will be your company's web page address for 100%. Your LinkedIn account you should say yes. Okay. You just said yes, it's recorded and your Facebook account two companies do you have in the company yeah Facebook, 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

I'll send you the link okay.

 

Mateusz Furs 

So, I will also put it in there all right. I just look at my list if we have covered all this, you know, topic I was interested in, because now we are preparing for some another application job sites. So there will be some more questions. You know, when we use it one time more, and more and then wanting more is always the same. Something else? Yeah.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Then you just have

 

Mateusz Furs 

some additional questions.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Or is

 

Mateusz Furs 

that just what I was really waiting with this? With this conversation until I use it, I touch it, I see it. And I see like people working with the product to, you know, to be able to. Yeah, very good to have some questions from my own construction site. Alright, do you have any question to our listeners?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

No, I don't have questions, but a recommendation. So if you have technical questions or need technical advice, so just drop an email, send me a picture description I drawing and we will be very happy to answer.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Great. All right. Thank you very much for the conversation. 

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

It was my pleasure.

 

Mateusz Furs 

For finding a time for me. I think we had the covered all most important thing when it comes to create this difference between the acrylic gel and this injection rubber. And I really am really interested if someone of our listeners had tried, and maybe some, you know, quick information, how was it?

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Of course, we are waiting to be perfect. Yes.

 

Mateusz Furs 

Have a great afternoon. Thanks. Good to see you afternoon and talk to you soon. Thank you.

 

Michaela Müller-Kaya 

Have a nice day. Thank you so much.

Mateusz Furs 

Thank you Michaela for this conversation full of information. The podcast makes me developing in my injection skills. I hope you all have the same. 

As I said at the beginning of this episode, for the first time since the launch of the Concrete Injection Made Easy podcast, I have two special giveaways.

One is a 5 percent discount on HydroBloc 570 injection rubber and the second one is a 30-minute remote consultation by phone or Skype with me or Michaela. The second promotion involves subscribing to the podcast on iTunes and leaving an honest review.

Details of this promotion are provided in the notes for this episode. 

Promotion runs for 10 days from the date of publication of this podcast episode.

I want to point out here that I am not receiving any payment from Arcan, I just asked Michaela to grant a discount to my podcast audience and she agreed. Many thanks for that. I hope this is the perfect time to take advantage of it.

In the last week, I visited construction sites 3 times where the water started to leak due to drying out and shrinkage of gel. Everything that we said in the conversation happened there. So it is, even more, important learning how to apply another type of resin.

Ok, that's it. This episode is full of great news. Thanks for listening and I hope you will tune in next time. 

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